Late MTT hand deserves analysis

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Late MTT hand deserves analysis

Postby Makaveli on Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:43 am

The hand first, then I'll post my thoughts....I hope to learn from this one.


POKERSTARS GAME #6419308325: TOURNAMENT #32353710, $50+$5 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL XIX (8000/16000) - 2006/09/25 - 20:18:29 (ET)
Table '32353710 19' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: JP 5-time (136180 in chips)
Seat 2: argenpoker (158313 in chips)
Seat 3: grumpy 2 (281699 in chips)
Seat 4: THE__D__RY (366700 in chips)
Seat 6: thorladen (175171 in chips)
Seat 7: UH Big Tex (296089 in chips)
Seat 9: TexRob (240348 in chips)
JP 5-time: posts the ante 800
argenpoker: posts the ante 800
grumpy 2: posts the ante 800
THE__D__RY: posts the ante 800
thorladen: posts the ante 800
UH Big Tex: posts the ante 800
TexRob: posts the ante 800
grumpy 2: posts small blind 8000
THE__D__RY: posts big blind 16000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TexRob [Jc Jh]
thorladen: folds
UH Big Tex: folds
TexRob: raises 32000 to 48000
JP 5-time: folds
argenpoker: folds
grumpy 2: folds
thorladen said, "at best"
THE__D__RY: calls 32000
*** FLOP *** [7d 2h Ah]
THE__D__RY: checks
TexRob: checks
*** TURN *** [7d 2h Ah] [2d]
THE__D__RY: checks
TexRob: bets 48000
THE__D__RY: calls 48000
*** RIVER *** [7d 2h Ah 2d] [8c]
THE__D__RY: checks
TexRob: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
THE__D__RY: shows [Kd Ks] (two pair, Kings and Deuces)
TexRob: mucks hand
THE__D__RY collected 205600 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 205600 | Rake 0
Board [7d 2h Ah 2d 8c]
Seat 1: JP 5-time folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: argenpoker (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: grumpy 2 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: THE__D__RY (big blind) showed [Kd Ks] and won (205600) with two pair, Kings and Deuces
Seat 6: thorladen folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: UH Big Tex folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: TexRob mucked [Jc Jh]
"A Hundred Times Nothing Killed the Donkey" -- Czech Proverb
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Postby Makaveli on Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:58 am

First of all, I think we both played it poorly.

The hand was strange because most of the time, and especially at this table, the action had been full on races or nothing.

The play had been very aggressive, and the villain in question had been caught more than once "re-stealing" with marginal to trash hands (that sometimes worked out).


So when I pick up JJ, I'm looking at a ticket to go broke. busting out now earns me $2000, but I'm playing for the $14000 1st place and will not be backing down to the super-aggressive players.

So while I would LIKE to get my chips in, I don't want to eliminate the chance for someone to try and make a move thinking I'll fold. I don't want to make it an easy call for AA, KK, QQ, and just win the blinds if I'm good, because I'm ready to get them in regardless. Or so I think.

So I make a standard raise hoping to get played back at. The weirdest thing happens when villain Smooth Calls ????

I really don't know what he was trying to do here. Perhaps he was applying the same logic to KK I did with JJ as he knows my play at this stage is probably the tightest on the table. Perhaps he doesn't want to "hang himself" either. Or maybe he puts me on Ax, and wants simply to dodge the Ace before moving.

Now what am I thinking when he calls ? Clearly the most likely holding for him is something like AQ or AJ I believe. So when the A comes and he checks I have a real problem.

When he checks to me, I have a chance to take the pot as it turns out but don't have the nuts to do it. I couldn't have known he was just trying to dodge the Ace and then bust me. So anyway I'm thinking he must be afraid of AK and doesn't want to make it an easy call for me, so checks probably knowing I'll bet and me thinking he'll call with AQ or AJ but he didn't have that at all. So I can't bet because I'm expecting he'll call so I'm ready to surrender and play another hand. Then when he checks the turn, I start to think he has no Ace which means he has a smaller pair and thus I can bet for value as no way he's smooth calling QQ or KK at this stage of the tournament. So I bet, he calls.... Then he checks again so I check-down assuming that I would just take down the pot versus 99 or TT because no way he checks back to me w/ 77 or 88 for a set. So anyway, I was surprised when he showed KK and I realized I could have stolen the pot from him because of his mistake preflop.

So what is the lesson here ?

When I pick up JJ in that spot, do I just commit to jamming the flop regardless of what comes, even if it hits his most likely holding at the time ??? That's difficult. Should I have checked the turn ? But then what if I did that, and he fires a bigger bet on the river ? Did my perceived "value bet" on the turn "Stop" him ???

Did I misplay the hand in a lucky way that allowed me not to go broke when combined with his passive mistake preflop ?

Thoughts ?
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Postby ChuckNorrisHorn on Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:22 am

i think you have to make a bet on the flop and go from there, once you checked the flop I think he was ready to call you down and risk you had Ax

he might have folded to a flop bet

with an ace out KK was ready to check it down and show his pair...
It was basically like starring in a bukkake video with Charlie the Tuna.


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Postby Makaveli on Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:30 am

Yeah, but that assumes you know he has KK. At the same time, I ALWAYS make the continuation bet and it irritates me that I didn't. But then I know that he knows that I'm going to continue...and so he would have checked the big Ace there as well. And that's why I didn't bet.

What are the possibilities ?

In order of likelihood....

AQ
AJ
TT
99
88
AK
77
QQ
KK
"A Hundred Times Nothing Killed the Donkey" -- Czech Proverb
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Postby Makaveli on Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:44 am

In fact, that may be giving him too much credit.

POKERSTARS GAME #6419294476: TOURNAMENT #32353710, $50+$5 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL XIX (8000/16000) - 2006/09/25 - 20:17:21 (ET)
Table '32353710 19' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: JP 5-time (145780 in chips)
Seat 2: argenpoker (183913 in chips)
Seat 3: grumpy 2 (299299 in chips)
Seat 4: THE__D__RY (273098 in chips)
Seat 6: thorladen (147171 in chips)
Seat 7: UH Big Tex (297689 in chips)
Seat 8: babyireland (65602 in chips)
Seat 9: TexRob (241948 in chips)
JP 5-time: posts the ante 800
argenpoker: posts the ante 800
grumpy 2: posts the ante 800
THE__D__RY: posts the ante 800
thorladen: posts the ante 800
UH Big Tex: posts the ante 800
babyireland: posts the ante 800
TexRob: posts the ante 800
JP 5-time: posts small blind 8000
argenpoker: posts big blind 16000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TexRob [Js Ah]
grumpy 2: folds
THE__D__RY: raises 24400 to 40400
thorladen: folds
UH Big Tex: folds
babyireland: raises 24402 to 64802 and is all-in
TexRob: folds
JP 5-time: folds
argenpoker: folds
THE__D__RY: calls 24402
*** FLOP *** [5s 8s Jd]
*** TURN *** [5s 8s Jd] [Ks]
*** RIVER *** [5s 8s Jd Ks] [5h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
THE__D__RY: shows [6c 6s] (two pair, Sixes and Fives)
babyireland: shows [Qc Ad] (a pair of Fives)
THE__D__RY collected 160004 from pot
thorladen said, "gg"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 160004 | Rake 0
Board [5s 8s Jd Ks 5h]
Seat 1: JP 5-time (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: argenpoker (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: grumpy 2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: THE__D__RY showed [6c 6s] and won (160004) with two pair, Sixes and Fives
Seat 6: thorladen folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: UH Big Tex folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: babyireland showed [Qc Ad] and lost with a pair of Fives
Seat 9: TexRob (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)




POKERSTARS GAME #6419204954: TOURNAMENT #32353710, $50+$5 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL XIX (8000/16000) - 2006/09/25 - 20:10:02 (ET)
Table '32353710 19' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: JP 5-time (105690 in chips)
Seat 2: argenpoker (187913 in chips)
Seat 3: grumpy 2 (302589 in chips)
Seat 4: THE__D__RY (135749 in chips)
Seat 6: thorladen (263720 in chips)
Seat 7: UH Big Tex (325689 in chips)
Seat 8: babyireland (124002 in chips)
Seat 9: TexRob (209148 in chips)
JP 5-time: posts the ante 800
argenpoker: posts the ante 800
grumpy 2: posts the ante 800
THE__D__RY: posts the ante 800
thorladen: posts the ante 800
UH Big Tex: posts the ante 800
babyireland: posts the ante 800
TexRob: posts the ante 800
THE__D__RY: posts small blind 8000
thorladen: posts big blind 16000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TexRob [Js 2d]
UH Big Tex: folds
babyireland: folds
TexRob: folds
JP 5-time: folds
argenpoker: folds
grumpy 2: folds
THE__D__RY: raises 118949 to 134949 and is all-in
thorladen: calls 118949
*** FLOP *** [5h Jc 2c]
*** TURN *** [5h Jc 2c] [Ac]
UH Big Tex said, "uh oh"
*** RIVER *** [5h Jc 2c Ac] [6h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
THE__D__RY: shows [Kc 8c] (a flush, Ace high)
thorladen: shows [Ad 5c] (two pair, Aces and Fives)
THE__D__RY collected 276298 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 276298 | Rake 0
Board [5h Jc 2c Ac 6h]
Seat 1: JP 5-time folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: argenpoker folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: grumpy 2 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: THE__D__RY (small blind) showed [Kc 8c] and won (276298) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 6: thorladen (big blind) showed [Ad 5c] and lost with two pair, Aces and Fives
Seat 7: UH Big Tex folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: babyireland folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: TexRob folded before Flop (didn't bet)


POKERSTARS GAME #6419181951: TOURNAMENT #32353710, $50+$5 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL XVIII (6000/12000) - 2006/09/25 - 20:08:08 (ET)
Table '32353710 19' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: JP 5-time (95890 in chips)
Seat 2: argenpoker (185713 in chips)
Seat 3: grumpy 2 (325189 in chips)
Seat 4: THE__D__RY (275809 in chips)
Seat 6: thorladen (122060 in chips)
Seat 7: UH Big Tex (328289 in chips)
Seat 8: babyireland (126602 in chips)
Seat 9: TexRob (194948 in chips)
JP 5-time: posts the ante 600
argenpoker: posts the ante 600
grumpy 2: posts the ante 600
THE__D__RY: posts the ante 600
thorladen: posts the ante 600
UH Big Tex: posts the ante 600
babyireland: posts the ante 600
TexRob: posts the ante 600
TexRob: posts small blind 6000
JP 5-time: posts big blind 12000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TexRob [2c As]
THE__D__RY said, "gg"
TexRob said, "gh"
argenpoker: folds
grumpy 2: folds
UH Big Tex said, "ty"
THE__D__RY: raises 20700 to 32700
TexRob said, "who's the oldest, that's the question"
babyireland said, "nh bro"
thorladen: raises 88760 to 121460 and is all-in
UH Big Tex: folds
babyireland: folds
TexRob: folds
JP 5-time: folds
THE__D__RY: calls 88760
UH Big Tex said, "ty fellas n ladies"
THE__D__RY said, "gl"
*** FLOP *** [3d 6s 4s]
*** TURN *** [3d 6s 4s] [8d]
*** RIVER *** [3d 6s 4s 8d] [7h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
THE__D__RY: shows [Jc Kc] (high card King)
thorladen: shows [9d 9h] (a pair of Nines)
thorladen collected 265720 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 265720 | Rake 0
Board [3d 6s 4s 8d 7h]
Seat 1: JP 5-time (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: argenpoker folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: grumpy 2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: THE__D__RY showed [Jc Kc] and lost with high card King
Seat 6: thorladen showed [9d 9h] and won (265720) with a pair of Nines
Seat 7: UH Big Tex folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: babyireland (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: TexRob (small blind) folded before Flop



POKERSTARS GAME #6417640226: TOURNAMENT #32353710, $50+$5 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL XI (600/1200) - 2006/09/25 - 17:58:03 (ET)
Table '32353710 30' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Jack3-9-95 (31744 in chips)
Seat 2: dchangd (7970 in chips)
Seat 3: TexRob (30790 in chips)
Seat 4: phinster (53819 in chips)
Seat 5: SuperPippo#9 (15019 in chips)
Seat 6: THE__D__RY (67060 in chips)
Seat 7: timao1910 (38109 in chips)
Seat 8: silly rabbit (14210 in chips)
Jack3-9-95: posts the ante 75
dchangd: posts the ante 75
TexRob: posts the ante 75
phinster: posts the ante 75
SuperPippo#9: posts the ante 75
THE__D__RY: posts the ante 75
timao1910: posts the ante 75
silly rabbit: posts the ante 75
timao1910: posts small blind 600
silly rabbit: posts big blind 1200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TexRob [5c 6h]
Jack3-9-95: folds
dchangd: folds
TexRob: folds
phinster: folds
SuperPippo#9: folds
THE__D__RY: raises 2400 to 3600
timao1910: folds
silly rabbit: raises 10535 to 14135 and is all-in
THE__D__RY: calls 10535
*** FLOP *** [8h 3d 7h]
*** TURN *** [8h 3d 7h] [9h]
*** RIVER *** [8h 3d 7h 9h] [Js]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
silly rabbit: shows [Jd Ts] (a straight, Seven to Jack)
THE__D__RY: shows [4h Ah] (a flush, Ace high)
Jack3-9-95 said, "gg"
THE__D__RY collected 29470 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 29470 | Rake 0
Board [8h 3d 7h 9h Js]
Seat 1: Jack3-9-95 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: dchangd folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: TexRob folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: phinster folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: SuperPippo#9 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: THE__D__RY (button) showed [4h Ah] and won (29470) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 7: timao1910 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: silly rabbit (big blind) showed [Jd Ts] and lost with a straight, Seven to Jack

But then watch him slowplay the big ones...


POKERSTARS GAME #6417531851: TOURNAMENT #32353710, $50+$5 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL X (400/800) - 2006/09/25 - 17:48:17 (ET)
Table '32353710 30' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Jack3-9-95 (36694 in chips)
Seat 2: dchangd (8170 in chips)
Seat 3: TexRob (43690 in chips)
Seat 4: phinster (55569 in chips)
Seat 5: SuperPippo#9 (12975 in chips)
Seat 6: THE__D__RY (27480 in chips)
Seat 7: Agg!3 (16524 in chips)
Seat 8: silly rabbit (7430 in chips)
Seat 9: trblcalling (11180 in chips)
Jack3-9-95: posts the ante 50
dchangd: posts the ante 50
TexRob: posts the ante 50
phinster: posts the ante 50
SuperPippo#9: posts the ante 50
THE__D__RY: posts the ante 50
Agg!3: posts the ante 50
silly rabbit: posts the ante 50
trblcalling: posts the ante 50
SuperPippo#9: posts small blind 400
THE__D__RY: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TexRob [8s Td]
Agg!3: raises 1600 to 2400
silly rabbit: folds
trblcalling: folds
Jack3-9-95: folds
dchangd: folds
TexRob: folds
phinster: folds
SuperPippo#9: folds
THE__D__RY: calls 1600
*** FLOP *** [6c 9s 9d]
THE__D__RY: checks
Agg!3: bets 3200
THE__D__RY: raises 21830 to 25030 and is all-in
Agg!3: folds
THE__D__RY collected 12050 from pot
THE__D__RY: shows [Kh Ks] (two pair, Kings and Nines)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 12050 | Rake 0
Board [6c 9s 9d]
Seat 1: Jack3-9-95 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: dchangd folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: TexRob folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: phinster (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: SuperPippo#9 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: THE__D__RY (big blind) collected (12050)
Seat 7: Agg!3 folded on the Flop
Seat 8: silly rabbit folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: trblcalling folded before Flop (didn't bet)


POKERSTARS GAME #6417609450: TOURNAMENT #32353710, $50+$5 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL X (400/800) - 2006/09/25 - 17:55:16 (ET)
Table '32353710 30' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Jack3-9-95 (31944 in chips)
Seat 2: dchangd (6620 in chips)
Seat 3: TexRob (29790 in chips)
Seat 4: phinster (55219 in chips)
Seat 5: SuperPippo#9 (16419 in chips)
Seat 6: THE__D__RY (55680 in chips)
Seat 8: silly rabbit (14410 in chips)
Seat 9: trblcalling (9630 in chips)
Jack3-9-95: posts the ante 50
dchangd: posts the ante 50
TexRob: posts the ante 50
phinster: posts the ante 50
SuperPippo#9: posts the ante 50
THE__D__RY: posts the ante 50
silly rabbit: posts the ante 50
trblcalling: posts the ante 50
TexRob: posts small blind 400
phinster: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TexRob [8c 6c]
SuperPippo#9: folds
THE__D__RY: calls 800
silly rabbit: folds
trblcalling: raises 8780 to 9580 and is all-in
Jack3-9-95: folds
dchangd: folds
TexRob: folds
phinster: folds
THE__D__RY: calls 8780
*** FLOP *** [Jd Ac Js]
*** TURN *** [Jd Ac Js] [3h]
*** RIVER *** [Jd Ac Js 3h] [3d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
THE__D__RY: shows [Qd Qc] (two pair, Queens and Jacks)
trblcalling: shows [7d 7s] (two pair, Jacks and Sevens)
THE__D__RY collected 20760 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 20760 | Rake 0
Board [Jd Ac Js 3h 3d]
Seat 1: Jack3-9-95 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: dchangd (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: TexRob (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: phinster (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: SuperPippo#9 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: THE__D__RY showed [Qd Qc] and won (20760) with two pair, Queens and Jacks
Seat 8: silly rabbit folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: trblcalling showed [7d 7s] and lost with two pair, Jacks and Sevens
"A Hundred Times Nothing Killed the Donkey" -- Czech Proverb
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Postby ChuckNorrisHorn on Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:47 am

once he checks to you...you have to bet out...the only way you check the flop is if you have a set of aces...you froze up like an icecream popsicle

obviously he knows you will continue but, he still might laydown KK with an ace out...if he pops you back or just calls a flop bet then you are shutting it down unless a jack pops up anyway.

but the flop bet gives you the best chance to win the pot right there.

i am not advanced enough to think of what the other guy had until he calls a flop bet.
It was basically like starring in a bukkake video with Charlie the Tuna.


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Postby ChuckNorrisHorn on Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:55 am

btw, the first hand in the second post, knowing you had AJ, i think you have to call that...you have a chance to eliminate two players with a decent holding...for the price you were getting you could have called...
It was basically like starring in a bukkake video with Charlie the Tuna.


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Postby Makaveli on Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:08 am

Yeah, great.

Call that from a player who turns out has me dominated and worse yet be priced in for my whole stack against the wild big stack early raiser. O yeah, and with nothing.

No thanks !!!
"A Hundred Times Nothing Killed the Donkey" -- Czech Proverb
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Postby ChuckNorrisHorn on Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:41 am

umm, my bad, I thought both of them were all in for the 65K or so...ignore that previous nonsense

i didnt read it right...
It was basically like starring in a bukkake video with Charlie the Tuna.


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